A Chayolei Hamelech Staff member writes:
I know you are going to go ahead and bash what I wrote (about the importance of the camp)…
So let me say this beforehand:
You may be %100 right about everything it says here in this website (and I have went thru some (not all – no time for that) of the stuff) –
but that dosen’t change the fact that the situation now in Anash is horrible, the Koch the Rebbe started about Moshiach is diminishing terribly, and the only way to renew it is by sending children to a camp which does just that – add to the children chassidishkeit and moshiachkeit.
perhaps the admin is messed up and corrupt (with all the other titles stated here) – but the fact still remains – the children need that environment, and that you can’t find elsewhere (I’ve been a camper for years in Montreal, a staff member in three other camps! and can assure you, the only place which really cares about the campers Ruchniyus is Chayolei Hamelech).
(and regarding if you can go there according to Halacha – there’s no problem, as I asked a Rav before going to camp, and I suggest that everyone ask their Rov/Mashpia as well, and do as he says)
have a great summer – wherever you may be.
A Chayolei Hamelech Staff member
I see an excuse and justification for Mesira and stealing.
The massage is very clear, you can do all wrong as long as you have the right intentions.
I looked and searched, looked and searched, the Shulchan Aruch and I haven’t found such a justification.
I (like everybody) just went through Perki Avot (for the first cycle for this year)and I haven’t seen such a justification.
Send your child to this camp and he will come out with this very frame of mind! A mixed and foolish one!
You may be right, but who cares about whats Right or wrong.
I decided that it’s a FACT that the situation is horrible, so in order to try to rectify this I decided to disregard Right from Wrong. I Feel that the only way we can bring moshiach back to life is by going to (and only to)Chayolei Hamelech although every thing leading up to this camp was done though corruption.
I don’t have time for Real Facts, only my facts matter. besides, who cares about facts, do they really matter?
Another way of saying K.I.T.
How can you have more to write after saying such a statement?
Your whole letter is basically saying “I know that perhaps/maybe I’m sining….But etc…”.
Then you go on to blame it on the Rebbe and Moshiach!
What does that mean, explain?
What makes it a FACT? and how by you going to THIS camp are you fixing the problem? (please answer each question in the order it was asked).
Explain how that is so?
Then why isn’t the camp overflowing with Mishichist children (is not MUST of Lubavitch Mishichist?).
The first year the camp was in Lackawaxen the place had 500 children and 200 Staff, where are they now?
If you heard that “perhaps” a certain Hechsher was “messed up and corrupt” would you eat it nevertheless? You might as well be standing with me on line in a restaurant telling me how you think that maybe “perhaps” the Hechsher is not good, while (at the same time as you speak) you are ordering.
I believe that would be (perhaps) a bit hypercritical.
Again, what makes that a Fact?
Explain what environment does this camp have over the other.
Why is it that you feel you have to take down another (mishichist) institution in order to bring your up?
How can an institution who is (perhaps) corrupted from its very core “really cares about the campers Ruchniyus?” Explain to us how that works.
This part has been done already, but I’LL give it another shot.
First off, I don’t believe you that a straight up lie.
You say you asked a Rav, which Rav?
What did you tell him and what did he reply? (word for word as best as you could).
I’m not going to get in to another silly and useless debate (which will end up in a never ending circle), I don’t speak about Facts, I present Facts.
The Fact is, there is a Letter from the Rabbonim that says Nobody has the right to use that camp until a Din Torah Takes Place.
Fact, the rightful owners gave a clear warning to anybody who will use their property, that they are stealing etc… (read it!)
Until anybody can send me any Real documentation to refute any of the real and more relevant facts that I presented, there really is nothing you can say (besides a bunch of propaganda).
What you do from here on is between you and G-d Almighty.
The Rebbe also wanted that we should go on Mivtzoyim and put on people Tifillin – one of the Rebbes Heilikeh mivtzahs.
So Yankel decides he wants to do Mivtzoyim. So very simple. what will he do? he goes straight to 770 where he knows he can find a pair of Tifillin.(not so far fetched. huh? lol) as he walks in he sees Shmerel about to put on his Tifillin for Shacharis. so right away he grabs Shmerels Tifillin away and starts walking to the door.
Shmerel:”Yankel, hey! give me back my Tifillin!“
Yankel:”You know that the Rebbe spoke very strongly about putting Tifillin on people without being embarrassed of anyone!“
Shmerel:” Yankel give me back my Tifillin and do Mivtzoyim with your own!
Yankel:“ hey, hey! wait a second, what are you telling me? That I shouldn’t do one of the Rebbes mivtzoyim?!!”
(taken from a comment on CH.info relating to the elections, I thought it to be relevant to here)
P.S. I find it to be divine provedence that this person (who wrote this comment) happened to us the name Yankle ;)
Which Rav has the Right to let you enter my house?There is a doubt in the ownership, and a Rav gave you permission to enter nevertheless? Who you making fun of?
Which Rav is this, I want to go ask him myself!
This way of thinking (justifying something which is wrong) is only because (these) people don’t have any morals and principles (ethics).
When you have morals and principles (ethics), baste on Torah (shulchan aruch etc..) you won’t come to make these mistakes. [Other] people won’t confuse you (meaning you won’t baste your principles on what other are or aren’t doing); you won’t baste your opinion on any particular party (mishichist/democrat or republican). If whats being done goes against your moral and principles then you keep away, then thats not YOUR party. YOUR “Party” (your guide) is the Torah (Shulchan Aruch).
With out morals and principles you stretch and knot up like a rubber band. Eventually even a Rubber band rips or get all tangled up. If you don’t put up a line, where do you stop?
To fool the world is one thing,
but to fool yourself is no big deal.
You’re a fool for wanting to fool yourself
–and anyone can fool a fool.
(from the sayings of Rabbi Shmuel of Lubavitch)
Don’t try to out smart yourself!
Remember: One sin leads to another sin, one Mitzva leads to another Mitzva!
(sent to my g-mail)
I don’t see what is wrong when writing “I asked a Rav” if someone asked FOR ME.
I’ll tell you as well, I have a friend who was not going to chayolei, and I asked him to ask Rabbi Osdobo if one can go to the camp as a staff member.
(I’ll tell you the truth, the reason I asked thru a middle-guy was in case he said no, for this happened two weeks before the summer, and I wasn’t in the mood to do nothing for the summer).
This is what happened: Rabbi Osdobo was sitting upstairs in 770 in his place learning. My friend went over and asked him “what’s with the new camp chayolei hamelech? (not sure of EXACT wording, but that was the toichen), and Rabbi osdobo made with his hand (as if to go away) – this I saw from the cheider sheini, where I was watching. he then asked him “can my friend go there as a staff member? and he nodded yes. he then asked “what’s with the Ikkul?” and again he made with his hand (up down, as “stop speaking nonsense and go away already”).
I saw this with my own eyes, but didn’t overhear the conversation. [if you want, you can post what I wrote above to “rectify” the grave error I had while writing “I asked a Rav”]
For me, that’s enough (besides the fact that Rabbi Shvei’s grandson was in camp [he himself came to register him], Rabbi Zirkind’s nephew pesach was a head counselor etc.)
As far as I can remember he suddenly left in middle of the summer, I never asked him why, but now I will and g-d willing i will post it here on this site.
Your doing what convenient for you and thats all, everything else (all the excuses) comes after the fact.
(you decided and you have to justify so you come up with all types of (mind me) stupidities).
Chayolei staff member Wrote:
Wow, where to start?
What is a Rav, what is his obligation as a Rav?
How does one choose a Rav?
Does the Rav give his own opinion or does he give you a Halacha biased on Shulchan Aruch?
How do you ask a Rav a question? What is a proper answer from a Rav?
If Mr. Bryski (or anybody) had a actual Rav (whom he/they TRULY respected), then he would have asked the Rav directly.
If he was Truly serious about doing whats Right (because he is a good Jew and wants to do what it says in Shulchan Aruch – our guide to doing what g-d wants, to doing what Right), then he would have made sure to ask in a proper manner (with all the details) and insist on a proper answer (not just a wave from the hand etc…).
If he really wanted to do what Right (according to Halacha- g-ds way), he would not write “I didn’t want to ask because I didn’t want to hear “NO”. Why ask to begin with? Who are you making fun of?
From your own words, I gather, that even If the Rav would have CLEARLY said to your friend that it is a Issur (like it CLEARLY says on the Psak) to go to this camp, you would go anyway being “that it was two weeks before camp, and you wasn’t in a MOOD to do nothing”!
So I ask again, who are you fooling? You (and the likes of you) have and will always do what ever your in a MOOD of regardless of the facts involved and regardless of Shulchan Aruch (actual Halacha).
If you don’t smell the milk (before pouring it in to a cup of coffee or boil of cereal), would that change the reality of the milk, (why wait did it’s already in the cup, waisting good coffee or cereal just to find out it not good), who are you fooling by not smelling the milk before?
If you don’t check your Tiffilin or Mizuzoz, does that mean it’s always going to remain Kosher?
If you don’t go to the Doctor because your afraid he might find something (g-d forbid), is that going to make it go away).
If you don’t check your Tizitz beofre putting them on, will they be kosher? Etc…Etc… V’dal
Sticking your head in the ground doesn’t make right and wrong go away!
Sticking your head in the ground doesn’t make the Halacha any different!
Besides: If it’s Issur (not allowed) its Issur, a Rav doesn’t make up Halacha (he can’t tell you yes if the Halacha is no, he can’t contradict Shulchan Aruch), When you ask a Rav it is only to clarify the issue you have. When you ask a Rav it’s because you TRULY want to do the RIGHT thing!
To begine with a person ask a Rav when he truly cares about what the Halacha is. This is not a game.
It’s really sad to think that there are actual human being that think this way and that are walking around in our streets and even scarier is that some of these people are involed in the Chinuch of our precious children.
WHO IS MAKING A CHILLUL HASHEM?
Right at the start of the court case, the judge, who is Jewish, asked both sides to resolve this at a Din Torah in order to avoid a Chillul Hashem. He has repeated this request again and again.
At a recent session, the judge asked: “How are you, as Lubavitcher Chassidim, not embarrassed to bring your dirty laundry out in the open for all to see, and to cause such Chillul Hashem?”
He turned to Spritzer: “Would you have brought them to court if the Rebbe were alive?”
Spritzer told him no.
“The Rebbe must be turning over in his grave because of you!” the judge berated him.
Yechi Hamelech Hamoshiach????
chayolei staff member wrote:
I don’t know the detail of Rabbi Schwei sending his grandchild nor do I care.
Rabbi Schwei or ANY Rabbi for that matter is not G-d, nobody (including Rabbonim) no matter how great and marvelous they may be (no matter their vast knowledge in Torah etc…) may say or do against what it says in Shulchan Aruch A.K.A. Halacha (nobody is above the Law). I’m not going to get in to what a Rav is or isn’t, now is not the time or place (just open a Shulchan Aruch and learn those laws).
If something is Assur (prohibited) it is for everybody the same.
The matter on hand is not clear, there is a dobte as to who are the rightful owners etc… until a Proper Din Torah Happends WE (all of us) will not know for sure, until then (like it says on The psak).
Which Rav on this planet (or even in Heaven) can give somebody permission (a Hetter) to enter MY house?
Which Shulchan Aruch give a Rav this Right?
In case you did not know this…. Shulchan Aruch was written also for Rabbonim (there are laws that say what a Rav can and can not do).
Even Rabbi Raitport (any rabbi for that matter) can’t go against his own Psak Halacha, unless he writes a new one explaining his past mistake and why now he sees that according to Shulchan Aruch (the book of laws he used the first time) the Halacha is different (then what he thought originally).
For more on how a Rav is expected to act, learn Rambam Hilchos talmid torah 4:1 and hilchos issurei bi’ah 19:17, see also shulchan aruch yoreh deah, 246:8 and even ho’ezer 2:5 also see Hayom yom 23 adar (1&2).
One cannot sanctify something which is untrue any more then one can sanctify something which is forbidden (a Mitzva CANNOT be caused by a sin).
Trying to justify stealing by using moshiach etc… just doesn’t fly. It is WRONG!
“The question is a frightening one, because it turns the very things that most convince us into a reason for doubt. When we find a teacher inspiring and compelling, when we are enthused by people who seem spiritual and pious, how can we be sure that they are not just megalomaniac, demagogic charlatans who are playing on our vulnerability for their own selfish gain? Is there a way of ensuring that we do not become conned into accepting religious beliefs that are in fact false?”
“In today’s culture, many of the “institutes of education” are actually “institutes of de-education.” While they impart to their students much important and necessary information, their underlying principle of moral relativism seeks to throw in doubt all the vital ethics which we strive to implant within our children. This destructive attitude, the notion that right and wrong are inherently subjective, is unfortunately prevalent and trendy throughout society”.
Liberals Value Good Intentions Above Both Truth and Outcomes